Something like. Just occasionally Gun is invited to speak at conferences organised by the likes of accuracy.org or VIPS (the Veterans Intelligence Professionals for Sanity). AMY GOODMAN: This is the NSA guy who wrote the memo. That accountability is key. All rights reserved. Ben Emmerson is. But deep inside me, I didnt feel guilty. This was a huge story, crushed by a bigger story. The woman in her 20s attempted to stop the war and firmly stood to her truthful morals. GAVIN HOOD: She did work for the attorney general, right up until a matter of weeks or so before the war, at which point, when he changed his mind, under massive pressure, having visited Washington and spoken to Gonzales and all the various lawyers who worked for Rumsfeld and Bush and Cheney, and theyd sold him on this idea of using Resolution 678, which authorized the 1991 Gulf War, and said, Really, that war didnt end, and were really still at war with Iraq. I didnt want to be that. But as we said last night, this is the purpose of Albert Camuss great story La Peste, when Dr. Rieux is given the child dying of plague. Ralph Fiennes plays Ben Emmerson. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. The legal case against Gun was eventually dropped by the British government in 2004, after her lawyer, Ben Emmerson QC (played in the film with fabulous charisma by Ralph Fiennes), threatened to use disclosure to put the legal basis of the war itself on trial. AMY GOODMAN: And you actually said you hadnt heard of Katharine Gun at the time, which is interesting in itself, because the story, in a sense, was almost killed for a bit. Gun is on Mondays episode of the Guardian podcast Today in Focus, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. Do you think shed meet with me? Because I think we were both a little skeptical of each other. I was very concerned about joining any kind of organisation like Stop the War, and being used as a focal point or something. Martin Bright and Ben Emmerson stick by Kathrine the whole time . [6] She left teaching in 1999, and after some temporary jobs, finding it difficult to find work as a linguist, Gun applied to GCHQ in 2001, after reading a newspaper advertisement for the organisation. I mean, obviously, at that point, then felt very sorry that someone had been arrested, but it was a huge relief at the time. The second act of the movie is concerned with the internal newspaper politics of that decision. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I mean, the story doesnt end. AMY GOODMAN: I mean, youre the guy who broke the story that showed that Britain was collaborating with the U.S. in trying to get dirt on U.S. ambassadors, AMY GOODMAN: to get them to vote for the war in Iraq, which ended up killingwhat do you say at the end of the film? MARTIN BRIGHT: Well, they didnt even say why. GAVIN HOOD: So, we meet the first day, and after a few hours I think we warmed to each other. Official Secrets is based on the actions of Brit Katharine Gun, who revealed that America had been eavesdropping on diplomats from other countries. Her whistleblowing was not enough to change the path of history, of course, and her last-gasp act of courage was all but forgotten in the brutal "shock and awe" of war. It was in character, I think. As well as illuminating Guns story, though, the film gives what was, by any standards, one of the great scoops of recent British journalism the credit that is long overdue. I mention those lines about working for the people rather than the government. You think everyone sees on your face that youre the leaker. After they charged me, thats when they tried to deport my husband. The simple fact is, she says: Truth always matters at the end of the day., Official Secrets is released on 18 October. She was arrested and charged with breach of the Official Secrets Act. The side of that history that Gun didnt really know in its fullest detail until she worked on the film was the drama of how the story made it into the pages of the Observer. One foundered for lack of funds, another strayed further from the truth than she would have liked. [5] In 1993 she began studying Japanese and Chinese at Durham University. "[12] In May 2019 The Guardian stated the case was dropped "when the prosecution realised that evidence would emerge that even British government lawyers believed the invasion was unlawful. Gun had, of course, been forced to abandon her career in the civil service and finally, struggling for work, left Britain altogether. AMY GOODMAN: You succeeded in preventing his deportation. AMY GOODMAN: So, theyre processing him. Jed didnt sort of put the two of us together. [6] Gun had previously been unaware of GCHQ, later saying that "I didn't have much idea about what they didI was going into it pretty much blind. Katharine Gun is a British Linguist and Iraq War Whistleblower. Indeed, your point about Bush is right. Her upbringing later led her to describe herself as a "third culture kid". She urged "those in a position to do so to disclose information which relates to this planned aggression; legal advice, meetings between the White House and other intelligence agencies, assessments of Iran's threat level (or better yet, evidence that assessments have been altered), troop deployments and army notifications. GAVIN HOOD: Well, its interesting you say that, because one of things Keira said to me that drew her to the script was, first of all, that she didnt have to wear a corset, because she does all these period dramas. You know, the conservative estimates are 125,000 up to a million. Yes and no. Hood uses chemistry among each character to bring them to life. I was teaching Mandarin in the local college in Cheltenham. So, you are there standing alone in the dock. AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. This is a rush transcript. AMY GOODMAN: The networks, like Fox, and The Drudge Report, CNN refused to interview you, saying that this couldnt be a real memo because, unfortunately, your newspaper translated it into British. . Before I knew it, I had spent two hours researching Katharine. We do not accept funding from advertising, underwriting or government agencies. AMY GOODMAN: And did they say they were going to charge you with the Official Secrets Act? Gun was charged for exposing around the time of Colin Powell's infamous testimony to the UN about Iraq's alleged WMDs a top-secret U.S. government memo showing it was mounting an . ", "US plan to bug Security Council: the text", "Let's free the Official Secrets Act from its cold war freeze | Alex Bailin", "Leaking or briefing? Consider donating here. It was with the help of MP Nigel Jones that Gun finally managed to free Yasar, reasserting his right to stay in the UK. diamond a ranch new mexico hunting using the weber burger press what does it mean when a willie wagtail follows you. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, yes, absolutely. But he certainly was suggesting that people would know. I was called up on Tuesday. [14] On the day of the court hearing, Gun said, "I'm just baffled in the 21st century we as human beings are still dropping bombs on each other as a means to resolve issues. Gun owned up to the leak a few days later to save her GCHQ colleagues from a witch-hunt. I took up teaching. Guardian Australia acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of Country throughout Australia and their connections to land, waters and community. KATHARINE GUN: No, I felt a huge sense of relief after I had, you know, confessed. Naturally, people are curious to know more about this courageous linguist who stood her ground even as political heavyweights descended upon her. Gun had given a copy of the memo, with no supporting verification, to a friend of a friend who eventually brought it to the Observers investigative reporter Martin Bright. It is not often that a persons character is revealed in two sentences. AMY GOODMAN: And your feelings at that time, Katharine? And I called Jed back, and I said, This is an amazing way into how we got into the Iraq War, thatwhy isnt it better known? And he saidI said, Could I come and meet Katharine? And you said in places like Chile. March 29, 2023 Posted by is vimto squash good for you; It was a very big audience, lovely, lovely theater. And I justI just determined to deny it. And I had to thank her forI mean, you know, in totally selfish terms, helping me break the biggest story of my life. [19] The memo was a top-secret request to monitor the private communication of UN delegates for scraps of information, personal or otherwise, that could be used to give the US an edge in leveraging support for the invasion. Gun told Bright in 2013, "There seems to be this blas attitude - the spying goes on . Katharine Gun - who's played by Keira Knightley in a forthcoming film - blew the whistle on a dodgy scheme by the American government. MARTIN BRIGHT: I have an abiding interest in the link between religion and conflict. She was 27. Don't worry, we won't share or sell your information. Gavin Hood, the director of Official Secrets, expressed scepticism about Macdonald's statement and called for the declassification of the official documents referred to by Macdonald. You werent particularly worried. You know, youre the attorney general. We sat in the bar of a city centre hotel, and talked about the ancient history of 2003. Maybe? And we worked five, six hours every day. Its so great to have you all with us. And really, you know, she had so many questions for me, and she really genuinely wanted to know about the whole situation. And its sothe nonpermanent members, who realized they were being hacked and their personal things were beingin order to try and blackmail them into a vote. So, 600,000 Iraqi people died. AMY GOODMAN: And, Katharine, describe that moment, when you come into court in this very dramatic waybut this is not just a feature film; this is your lifeand youre facing years in prison, your husband not there because youre concerned he will become the story as a refugee in Britain. When asked by Salon how it felt to see a famous actress act out her life for an audience . Interview: Whistleblower Katharine Gun. I thought you said youre sick. And I said, I need to talk to you. And so we went into a small room, and I just said, I did it. And then she put her arm around me and went, Oh, Katharine. And then I burst out crying. I mean, this has been going on for a number of years, and it always sort of ended up kind of petering out, so, GAVIN HOOD: Other people had approached you before. AMY GOODMAN: And when did that come out? I think our problem now, and I think this applies on both sides of the Atlantic, is that we have populist politicians for whom that doesnt matter. Within half an hour, the case was dropped because the prosecution declined to offer evidence. GAVIN HOOD: Well, for me, what I love about the story is actually, on the one hand, its got this huge global political relevance, and it resonates still today. You have the Iraq War continuing today, 16 years after George W. Bush, knowing there were not weapons of mass destruction, invades Iraq with Britain. I wonder what she made of the scattershot download methods of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange? And yeah, it was, AMY GOODMAN: And what did you think, whenbefore you had seen Katharine and met her, what did you imagine she would be like, this young woman, 27-year-old woman of conscience, who. is a 501(c)3 non-profit news organization. And we had to sit and wait for two hours while they winged it down from London. I ended up, bizarrely, teaching a couple of my former colleagues at GCHQ. So a very big story got crushed very quickly. But this is not the issue. We are defending ourselves. I had had my own story on the fabrication of the weapons of mass destruction, the existence of a shadow intelligence-cooking agency within the Pentagon, which we at The Observer had for five months before Sy Hersh, with great respect to Sy, published it in The New Yorker. You know, youre not waiting for someone for hours in makeup. GAVIN HOOD: They failed. And looking back, its easy to be nostalgic about how things were with Bush and Blair, because it looks like these people were easier to hold to account. The original content of this program is licensed under a. AMY GOODMAN: So, and we want to get to all that, but nowwe want to get to all that, but right now youre showing this film around the country. The first is a U.N. resolution for war. In Official Secrets, Gun is played by Keira Knightley while Matt Smith takes on the role of Martin Bright. AMY GOODMAN: No, you thought it was routine when he walked in. And I was tasked to set up a website to look into this. I havent watched the films about either of them, she says. Gun thinks she might speak out more considering the current state of political affairs and massive citizen involvement in sociopolitical issues. In fact, Iyou know, I couldnt bear to watch the scenes. AMY GOODMAN: Shes then arrested. "[15], In September 2019 Ken Macdonald, the former director of public prosecutions, said the case against Gun was not dropped in order to stop the Attorney General's advice on the legality of the Iraq War from being revealed. These were the six "swing nations" on the UN Security Council that could determine whether the UN approved the invasion of Iraq. KATHARINE GUN: It was GCHQ internal security, yeah. So how am I, with my tiny team of researchers, going to do anything like that? And so, its one of those moments where you realizeI mean, the chill went up my spine, like I thought, Ive got to get out of here. So, yes, that was not a good moment, yeah. ED VULLIAMY: Well, he was the political editor at the time, who was giving me a lot of trouble over getting my cooked intelligence story into the paper. GAVIN HOOD: Chile, Bulgaria, Angola, Cameroon, Pakistan, Mexico. Thats [inaudible]. And I had already not been able to eat for about 24 hours. Katharine Gun's case can also be very relevant for Julian Assange's defense: "Within half an hour, the case was dropped because the prosecution declined to offer evidence. In 2003, she leaked top-secret information to The Observer, concerning a request by the United States for compromising intelligence on diplomats from member states of the 2003 Security Council.The diplomats were due to vote on a second United . Soon after, they moved to Turkey in 2011, and for the most part, the family has stayed away from the public eye. And they had already taken him down into the custody suite, which is, by the way, where I had been before. [24] In July 2019, in a lengthy interview on the US program Democracy Now!, Gun, Gavin Hood (the film's director), and Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy (the journalists who broke the story of the leaked memo) discussed the events that the film describes. Gun is not active on social media and occasionally participates in small-scale conferences and discussions pertaining to politics. They said, Plead out., AMY GOODMAN: We dont want you to go to jail for years. ED VULLIAMY: But my point is not against Mr. Ahmed. Never mind the number injured. Our Daily Digest brings Democracy Now! The legal case against Gun was eventually dropped by the British government in 2004, after her lawyer, Ben Emmerson QC (played in the film with fabulous charisma by Ralph Fiennes), threatened to use disclosure to put the legal basis of the war itself on trial. And that was it. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. AMY GOODMAN: So, Katharine, as all of this is unfolding, the U.S. and Britain bomb Iraq. He succumbed to his wounds and Knight dragged his body downstairs, skinned him, and hung his body from a meat hook in the living room. The film captures well the inspired and stubborn efforts of Bright (Matt Smith in the movie), and colleagues Ed Vulliamy (played with brio by Rhys Ifans) and Peter Beaumont (played by Matthew Goode), to stand the story up, based on the few details it betrayed, and to get it into the paper, despite the strong misgivings of the political desk. Does she tell her story when she meets new people? We will never know. AMY GOODMAN: the person in charge of news. First day, what did you feel? KATHARINE GUN: My MP, yes, at the time. AMY GOODMAN: Gavin, introduce us to Ben Emmerson. And all of a sudden his safe, you know, this civil servant wife is in a whole lot of bother that he never expected to have to deal with. The love between Katharine and her husband, Yasar Gun, is undeniable, and the punishment they must to endure together is heart stopping.

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